Saturday, October 15, 2005

DailyKos' predictable sentiments on the referendum:
Yes the Constitution will win the vote. And then what? Will our troops come home now? Will the Iraqi government be able to govern? What is different now than yesterday?
That's right, the "progressive" position is that voting is irrelevant. Democracy: great for me, but not so much for thee.



Blogger Jack Roy said...

Truly. I'm ashamed to be a "progressive" rather than a right-thinking conservative, who knows that an ineffective central government, a laughable military, scores being killed by suicide bombers on a regular basis, ethnic and religious factionalism, the threat of civil war---these are mere realism! They don't matter next to the thin veneer of real democracy! So what if hundreds are dying and civil war may be around the corner---there was a vote!

Sad, indeed.

10:37 AM  
Blogger Paul said...

hmmm, I can think of a lot of good conservative reasons to maintain the wicked status quo of a Saddam Hussein, but I'm having trouble thinking of any liberal progressive ones.

Care to enlighten me?

And while you are at it, perhaps you could tell me what is so progressive about supporting a state that tolerates suicide bombing but not homosexuality.

2:05 PM  
Blogger TallDave said...


A litany of defeatist half-truths is not realism, either, esp. when you ignore the fact that it replaced something monstrously worse.

Freedom and democracy are now a reality in Iraq, and offer hope for the future after the removal of a regime that murdered millions and ruined the country's infrastructure. Sad that some still can't celebrate that.

3:36 PM  
Anonymous Daniel said...

I think you missed the point -- they don't just think democracy isn't good for Iraqis, they don't think it's good over here either.

4:16 PM  
Blogger Hamilsizzle said...

they stuffed the ballot boxes. And in Kabul they tried to sentence a journalist to death who runs a magazine for women. Is this the freedom you're speaking of?

Not to digress to much, but President Bush didn't go on the air to America to say, "Iraq needs Democracy right now and we've got to give it to them."

He did say that Iraq had WMD and if we didn't invade now we'd be seeing mushroom clouds soon. Well, there were no WMD to speak of.

This Democracy argument is part of a shifting justification for a cause without focus.

The Elections do mark a significant point in Iraqi history, in that they have never had elections before. But we should not be so naive to think that the result is, "Jeffersonian Democracy...just add water."

The country is teetering on the verge of civil war, because the President refused to take the adice of time tested and battle hardened General's who told him that if you're gonna do it, send in enough troops to finish the job.

Unfortutnately, the President did just the opposite.

I think we should be happy that Iraq was able to carry out an election. But I think we need to recognize just how divisive that document is AND just what we're getting for our money.

So far, it's 14,000 U.S. G.I.'s injured, 2000 killed, a volunteer army at the breaking point, dimished homeland security readiness, and a Shiite Theocracy who's closer to Iran (who does posses WMD) than they will ever be with the U.S.

This is not a partisain issue. This is a national security issue. And if we continue to allow the President to stick his head in the sand on this one than we're all in big trouble.

5:54 PM  
Blogger TallDave said...


You guys say the same stuff about American elections. And the Taliban didn't just "try" to execute journalists, they DID. Routinely. Like swatting flies.

We don't claim things are perfect, just thatb they are far, far better.

4:17 PM  
Blogger Paul said...

I get so tired of hearing about 'shifting justification.'

Hamil, if George Bush, pre-invasion, did say something to the effect of 'the Middle East needs democracy and a democratic Iraq will become a beacon of freedom in the Middle East' would you have then supported the war?

I didn't think so.

6:08 AM  
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8:31 PM  

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